Curse

Phoenix Tears · Nov 01, 2007, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo™

All low end weapons in all games are pretty much similar, the same short sword is in WoW, L2 and GW. But once you get into the higher tier stuff, they are distinctly different. I don't argue that L2 have more ornaments on their armor, but its just a matter of taste in design and what people like. I wouldn't say GW have no ornate designs, just not as much compared to L2, partially because of their texture resolutions does not permit such details, but mostly it's just a particular style. Looking at the concept art for Lineage 2, and Guild Wars, they're both just as well done, but its comparing the style of one particular artist against another, it only boils down to taste. Monet isn't necessarily better than Van Gogh, they're just different artist.

But personally I dont think it's the ornaments that's making them unrealistic, its the same stupid glowy effects that they use in WoW for all their upper tier weapons. They start to look less like weapons and more like something you take to a Rave party instead. I don't want Luke Skywalker's lightsaber, I just want a real looking saber.

the problem is, the players in GW don't even get the choice of rather taking a normal saber, or if you like more the more powerful looking light saber... because it just doesn't exist, so people get theoretically forced to take all the same common stuff, that can be choosed among the existign stuff

This is the typical point of "only because something exists in a game, doesnt't mean, that you must have to own it, when you don't like its looks"
Lets imagine just for an example, there would exist in GW weapons, that look similar powerful and mighty, like those glowing hsiny weapons from L2...
Would anyone force you to play with theses, when they just look only mighty, but are in the end not more powerful, then any common long sword with the same max damage ?
No, its just for looks and maybe for prestige, but more not.
But the important fact is more: players should have at least the choice to get it, if they want somethign like this to make they characzers look glowy/shiny and letting look like mighty heroes full of force

PS: when i look at thodse armor/weapon lists ect. I could QQ. The style of L2's stuff is so amazing and much stuff looks really awsome aganst the 90% boring stuff of GW (including reskins of weapons/armors)

I would die for having in GW a Sword for my Warrior, like this:

it#s the L2's Flamberge, a Flamberge that really looks like a Flamberge has to look in kind of its blade, other then the boring Flamberge of GW, which doesn't even slightly look like a Flamberge in kind of its blade
http://www.guildwarsevolution.com/pi.../flamberge.jpg
This Flamberge is versus the one of L2 just bad crap, bad designed crap, what other I can't say about that...

or die for a Sword like this:

Simple, but just looks awesome cause of its simple cool motive on the blade

or die for a sword like this:

Thats the correct Size of how Spears have to be, not like this
http://gw.mondespersistants.com/gw_i...zingspear1.jpg

this size we have in GW lets those weapons look more like toothpicks ...then spears...
Spears are 2H Weapons and only when thrown away, you hold them in 1H

Bryant Again · Nov 01, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

the problem is, the players in GW don't even get the choice of rather taking a normal saber, or if you like more the more powerful looking light saber... because it just doesn't exist, so people get theoretically forced to take all the same common stuff, that can be choosed among the existign stuff

Yeah you do. If you want "big and mighty and powerful", check out this weapon.

And besides, huge and overproportioned weapons aren't too popular in GW's style. It's a little more realistic as far as fantasy games go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

PS: when i look at thodse armor/weapon lists ect. I could QQ. The style of L2's stuff is so amazing and much stuff looks really awsome aganst the 90% boring stuff of GW (including reskins of weapons/armors)

Keyword bolded. See Lonesamurai's post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Funny thing is, a lot of the L2 armours, were reskins over one model...

They had whining about reskins long before GW:EN came out

And it's not that the style is amazing, you just like it more than Guild Wars'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

Thats the correct Size of how Spears have to be, not like this
http://gw.mondespersistants.com/gw_i...zingspear1.jpg

Lolwut? That is *way* out of proportion to what exists in real life. That's more of a halberd. And besides, spears in GW are that size because they're supposed to be able to be thrown with one hand.

Lonesamurai · Nov 01, 2007, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Lolwut? That is *way* out of proportion to what exists in real life. That's more of a halberd. And besides, spears in GW are that size because they're supposed to be able to be thrown with one hand.

because he's young and doesn't have an actual clue about real world weapons, he doesn't know that the "spear" he showed in that pick of L2 is in actual fact a polearm or halberd...

A very different weapon to a spear and useless when out hunting, compared to a spear, one of the oldest weapons in mans arsenal and originally a knife on the end of a stick and thrown into the underbellies of Mammoths by cavement...

freekedoutfish · Nov 01, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

You do appreciate that graphics depend on the machine. Guild Wars looks beautifull on my machine, especially in GWEN!

It looks better then most other recent games ive demo'd or bought!

No doubt GW2 will look amazing, and even better then that. But i like GWs as it is, and as I say.. its one of the best looking games I own.

Also check the backgrounds out.. compared to those screen caps from lineage... GWs blows it out the water...

(ok so the water is great, but its still nice)

The screen caps from GWs that your using dont look like their from a machine running at full spec, and mine are and my machine is!

Quad-core 2.0 MGhz,
4GB memory,
Nvidia 8800.

You cant rely on screen caps from websites, becuse there is a good chance their not from a machine running at full spec.

Also I quote the gamespy review about the bad side to lineage 2...

"Terrible for small party/casual players; lag in graphically complicated areas; poor chat system and guild management tools; minimal character customization. " http://uk.pc.gamespy.com/pc/lineage-.../519680p1.html

...the game also only got 3/5 stars, while GWs has 4.5 stars. So would you rather Anet pushed the graphics, rather then focus on gameplay and performance?

Top end graphics in an MMO arent a great idea, because it impacts performance and you get lag!

Also if you check the images for Lineage 2 in gamespy, they dont look anything special. GWs looks far nicer!

Example > http://uk.media.pc.gamespy.com/media...g_4434790.html

Just somemore for the fun of it...

Now tell me that view is isnt just jaw-dropping!

Vinraith · Nov 01, 2007, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

ill put that comment down to ignorance else ill shift it into stupidity.

Whereas I'll simply regard yours as a product of bad taste poorly covered by childish personal attacks.

Lonesamurai · Nov 01, 2007, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

#Snip#

best post you've ever made

and damn, Devona only comes upto jora's waist in that pic there... hilarious

Fitz Rinley · Nov 01, 2007, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

it#s the L2's Flamberge, a Flamberge that really looks like a Flamberge has to look in kind of its blade, other then the boring Flamberge of GW, which doesn't even slightly look like a Flamberge in kind of its blade

Ok, I own a Flammard. A Flammard is a rarely used weapon from a very limited time in history. It did not need to be sharpened much because its primary purpose was to break things (pikes, arms, skulls) with motions more appropriate to a hammer than a sword. It is an extremely effective weapon that was never used as either a hand and a half sword or this Conan ideal of the two handed sword. But the myth makes good fiction - I will grant. However, if one wishes to discuss realism, this blade being held in the picture above is not a Flamberge or a Flammard. A Flamberge is a rapier whose wavy blade makes parries nasty for the opponent, and increases chances of disarmament. To be either the blade must be unduly, which the above is not. And I cannot remember at the moment the term for that kind of barbing, but it is still used on arrowheads commercially manufactured for hunting.

Quote:

Thats the correct Size of how Spears have to be, not like this
http://gw.mondespersistants.com/gw_i...zingspear1.jpg

this size we have in GW lets those weapons look more like toothpicks ...then spears...
Spears are 2H Weapons and only when thrown away, you hold them in 1H

It depends on what kind of spear you are dealing with. The spear you show is appropriate for hunting boar, not for throwing. It is a spear more suitable to use from a mount. And there are three kinds of spears:
Spears meant for skewering, used like a lance.
Spears for slashing, such as the Irish Gar or certain African sword-spears with moderatly short handles and long blades.
Spears for throwing, which have rather small blades (5 to 10" usually) on slender shafts, and can be launched by hand or through a woomera.

All these variations of the spear changed one way or the other over time. Thrown spears gave us Plumbatae (which are now fallen to the stature of a yard game) and Javelins. The War Spears were replaced by glaive, guisarme, ranseur, and halberd. The skewering spears were replaced by the pike and the lance.

If GW did wrong by the throwing spear, it is in the extreme size of some of the heads.

Phoenix Tears · Nov 01, 2007, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

because he's young and doesn't have an actual clue about real world weapons, he doesn't know that the "spear" he showed in that pick of L2 is in actual fact a polearm or halberd...

A very different weapon to a spear and useless when out hunting, compared to a spear, one of the oldest weapons in mans arsenal and originally a knife on the end of a stick and thrown into the underbellies of Mammoths by cavement...

guy ..stay at a normal tone and don't start flaming ...
this is so typical ..only because someone has an other opinion, like someone other, people start to degrade others opinion by calling them "young" or "childs" ...

get grown up !!, the one who has no clue, is you, you look only at what the weapon is listed under on the L2-Site.. only because that thing is listed under polearms doesn't mean, that it is one ... i've more clues about weapons, then you might think!

When you would look at this weapon list really, you would have seen, that there are under polearms also listed other kinds of weapons, which are absolute other weapon types, when you look at them seriously..there are also listed lances, "axes" and even scythes and 2H Swords fall there under the point of pole arms ...

andy why ? because this site shows only very badly all different kinds of weapons ...and because there are not so MUCH different tabs for all different kinds of weapons on this site, there have landed similar kinds of weapons all in one tab...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spear

The Spear is a Hybrid Weapon, you can use it for ranged fighting, but also for MELEE, thus spear being handled with 2 hands, when fighting melee and only with 1h, when you want to throw it and it doesn't is a matter of spear length, if you have now a throw spear, or a melee spear... spear is spear and all spears have a similar length to be used for both fight styles ... the only difference is, that most throw spears are in average shorter than melee spears, but there also exist throw spears, that are longer than melee ones...

You can see in the wiki, that the average spear, regardless if now throw spear or not, has ever a length of like 1,5-2 meters...

but the stuff in GW, there are spears under in the game, that look more, as if they are only like 1 Meter long and thats by far too short, like my example picture ...thats a huge toothpick no spear lol

@freeked...

sure, i know, the grade of details raised a bit with EoTN, graphics got slightly bettern, than before and with Eotnthe game receive some really nice looking items, like those gloves and the preorder items are in general some little highlights of all weapons in GW

PS good night for now XD: see later replies

freekedoutfish · Nov 01, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

too short, like my example picture ...thats a huge toothpick no spear lol

@freeked...

sure, i know, the grade of details raised a bit with EoTN, graphics got slightly bettern, than before and with Eotnthe game receive some really nice looking items, like those gloves and the preorder items are in general some little highlights of all weapons in GW

PS good night for now XD: see later replies

It isnt just new gloves and GWEN textures which are nice, some weapon textures which existed before GWEN are gorgeous at full spec.

Some of these are GWEN items, some are bonus items..

For one thing, the look of that shield compared to the OP'ers shield image is far, far better! I bet if I took a prophercies weapon and screen capped it, it would look just as nice.

lyra_song · Nov 01, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Phoenix have you actually handled any real weapons?

.-.

Ornate weapons are only for ornamental or ceremonial purposes.

In fact, to me, the fancier looking a weapon, the weaker it seems.

If you have ornate adornments, and fancy non-functional garbage on a sword, it begins to weigh more. It throws the balance off.

This sword's guard would require either casting or stamping, resulting in a weaker shape and I would bet, fracture easily.

Fitz Rinley · Nov 01, 2007, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Phoenix Tears,

Yes a spear wielded much the same a bo staff was very effective for many many years. Spear use, I suspect, may be one of the most important reasons our naked weak species could survive it evolution. However, the spear evolved as well, and the spears you are showing, even ones like the Guardian spear, are Not throwing spears. They are just cute for game. I have thrown spears, for fun and personal experiment. I have dealth with people that make spear throwers/woomeras, bows, arrows, and flint knives, as well as studying some of the history of weapons use (until gunpowder which bores me).

One of my greatest gripes with these games is the lack of distinction between their fantasy exagerations and real historical weapons. And none of the spears referenced in the wiki article have the massive head you depict. Is it pretty yes, and to that I will agree. So are many of GWs spears, they are simply not as fantasy oriented as L2s.

Do I think GW could expand its options? Yes. Broadspears (like the Gar with its five finger wide base and slowly tapered point) could be added for use as a scythe. Greatswords could also. I don't expect it, and unless they radically shift the Atts for GW2 to be more inclusive by function rather than limiting weapons by class then it won't happen.

Mineria · Nov 02, 2007, 04:35 AM // 04:35

The Polearms in L2 got almost the same function as the Scythes in GW.

I worked on some GW screenshots to show a bit how detailed and good things look in GW.
Shame that I can't catch exact how light and shadows play with a screenshot.
It is one of the things that looks fantastic in GW.

Click on the images to see them in full size, the thumbnail resolution is lowered for forum use.

Swords and shields

Armors, first one has a clipping problem with the gloves, but so does some L2 armor.

Effects

Minions

Water

Towns

And my personal favorite

I rather play with 60fps then 130fps, just for the details.
Since my monitor is running at max 60Hz, I will not get any more benefits from higher framerates in GW.

Rivix · Nov 02, 2007, 04:52 AM // 04:52

GW:EN, good-looking?!

Have you seen Dervish armor? Its sad...

Karyuu · Nov 02, 2007, 04:57 AM // 04:57

I find GWEN quite good looking indeed. It's all a matter of opinion, and absolutely moot to argue about.

Mineria · Nov 02, 2007, 05:03 AM // 05:03

This is sad??

Sleeper Service · Nov 02, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

it may be a generation issue really.

(some) Old timers will see GW graphics as magnificent and generally state the "gameplay over Graphics" mantra.

younger players will just see the graphics, and will have been brought up on some(not all but ...a fair bit imo) HORRENDOUS gameplay only made up by visual extravaganza.

Starcontrol, kings quest, UFO, monkey island, syndicate, doom, wolf3d...look at them from the eyes of a young player. Ouch.

now look at games like mafia, matrix, daikatana....

what im trying to say is that there was a shift from gameplay to graphics during the 90's when processors started to become powerful enough the same happened with consoles (and is still the case). GRAPHICS (proc speed) is the ladder on which many games are scored on nowdays. And that been taught to the younger ones.

lyra_song · Nov 02, 2007, 05:21 AM // 05:21

im glad i grew up playing nintendo and atari and game and watch stuff. .-.

The PSX generation is spoiled.

Bryant Again · Nov 02, 2007, 05:23 AM // 05:23

The only thing I wish GW graphics had is the same awesome shading they put on the rest of the weapons, most being the destroyer set.

And you want detail? Look at THIS bad boy! This too has some really kick-ass shading effects to it:

http://gw.gamewikis.org/images/c/ca/Ebonhand.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

im glad i grew up playing nintendo and atari and game and watch stuff. .-.

The PSX generation is spoiled.

< Grew up with Doom and Hexen. Sprites for lyfe!

Karyuu · Nov 02, 2007, 05:27 AM // 05:27

I don't think it's a bad thing to push graphics further and further with every year. Certainly keeps us artists busy

This thread started with a personal opinion however, and while you can try to debate it with others, art style is for sure not something that has "wrongs" and "rights."

GW2 = new shaders! It's going to be fun to see.

RedNova88 · Nov 02, 2007, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Lineage 2 charges a monthly fee.

GW does not.

Lineage 2 has virtually nothing to do in it other than killing the same flipping monster 2000 times to level up. (dont forget to sit down for 15+ minutes to regen health and mana). Sure you can buy potions but if you do that you wont be able to buy that new weapon/armor that you NEED.

GW has a fairly deep story, lots of well known characters, lots of interesting quests that are all fairly unique.

GW is casual to hardcore.

Lineage 2 is hardcore and hardcore only. You grind, you farm, or you die.

GWs PvP is the most balanced and fun PvP I've seen since... Well, PvP may not be 100% balanced but nothing is perfect and if it matters this is the most well balanced RPG I've seen of late.

Lineage 2 HAS PvP but it's more like "Hey! Go ahead and go PvPing.. Just be sure not to delevel and "go red" in the process!" (thats right, in L2 you can go DOWN levels. As a penalty for death you LOSE XP)

In GW once you hit level cap the only difference in items is appearance, they do not hold any advantage over the ones that casual players may use such as collector items.

In Lineage 2 if you don't upgrade and get the best that you can, as soon as you can, your character will wither and die due to the fact that as you level up creatures that are lower than you no longer drop items/money as frequently, until they drop NOTHING because you are too high. On the other hand if you kill something higher than you... You gain no benefits.. You actually receive a loot and XP penalty. Thus forcing you to tediously and repetitively kill the enemies at or around your level...Over...And over... And over... But! If you don't get that new piece of armor this next level, the enemies beating on you will be doing quite a bit more damage than you would like.

Oh and another thing about GW and how (imo) it's better than L2 is that the skills are very unique and interesting, and all have some great, specific use. While on the other hand in L2 there aren't a whole lot of skills until FAR into the high levels. So you'll be stuck with simple, very basic attacks for much of the time.

In short (imo) Lineage 2 is nothing more than looks. Sure to date it holds the record for most subscriptions over it's life-time (14 million I think?) most of the subscribers came from Korea because (not to sound racist) but it seems that many people in that area have a strong taste for hard core RPGs.

Oh and Phoenix Tears. Not to seem rude but there's a large difference between throwing and melee spears, seeing as how the long polearm probably weighs WAY too much for any person to throw and adequate distance.